Hi,

Just completed the 2nd Practise Exam (Issue 3 Dec 08 Met Study Book) prior to sitting my Met exam, and have a few quesions regarding some of the answers. Hope someone can help me with them!

Q 19. Got a little confused reading the TAF extract with this one: 'Your flight has a maximum take-off weight of 2100KG. You plan a flight to YTRE wit an ETA of 040UTC. TAF YTRE reads: TAF YTRE 01 1825Z 2008 33025KT CAVOK FM01 18018KT 9999 FEW010 SCT012. Nominate , with the appropriate reasons , whether or not an alternate must be provided'

I may be asking a silly question, but does the 01 at the begining of the TAF indicate the the 1st day of the month just with an added space in between that and the time it was issued? And the FM01 = 0100UTC or the 1st again with the time missing?

Q 20. 'This question relates to a VFR flight by day proceding more than 50nm from the departure aerodrome. The maximum crosswind component in a aeroplane's flight manual is 15kt. Which of the following weather conditions forecast for the destination at the ETA would necessitate the provission of an alternate?'
[a] Vis of 8km.
15kt steady x-wind.
[c] 30% probability of vis restricted to 7km.
[d] 3/8ths cloud with 1400ft ceiling.

I answered [d]. [c] was the correct answer. If that is the case wouldn't both [c] and [d] require an alternate? If cloud is SCT below 1,500ft isn't an alternate required? Or am I just reading the AIP wrong...

Q 26. 'Refer to Fig 2 page 8.17 of this section.
At the time of issue the chart the wind direction at Melbourne [YMML] is
approximately:'
[a] Northerly.
Westerly.
[c] Easterly.
[d] Southerly.

I answered [d].

When given a question like this, is it asking surface wind or gradient wind? Therefore before answering, should I take into account the wind veering by 30degrees and speed decreasing by 2/3???

Also one more thing in relation to charts needed for both my upcoming Met and Air Law exams. I sit both exams just over a week before the ERSA, VTC, PCA and ERC November amendments. Will I be fine taking the new copies in to both my Met and Air Law exams even though they won't be in effect until a week and a bit later???

Thats all for now I think!

Cheers

Mick

Hi Mick,

The FM01 is From 0100. Relating to an ETA of 0040 you would need to consider the conditions as your ETA is within the 30min buffer required for a TAF. And the YTRE 01 1825Z 2008 means, Taree forecast issued on the 1st of the month at 1825Z, valid from 20(00) to 08(00). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, or not quite right!

Q20.

The answer isn't (d) because an alternate is only required when half the sky (4/8) or more is covered below 1500ft and SCT by itself is only 3/8. It can't be (a) because thats the minimum visibility before an alternate IS required and it can't be (b) because your aircrafts max xwind component is 15kt.

Any percentage probability of vis reducing requires you to plan for an alternate. And while we're at it so does a PROVISIONAL forecast, I think it's because a provisional forecast may have been issued by a station that isn't in it's 'jurisdiction' if you will.

Be careful because FEW at 800ft plus SCT at 1100ft equals more than 4/8.. Whereas FEW at 800ft and SCT at 1700ft wouldn't. But you'd question making the flight at all in that case

Q26.

This one got me as well and I think I answered (d) as well, however you would be looking at the surface wind (??) I imagine because it's asking you for the wind AT YMML and not x amount of feet above it.

Good luck for this exam, I failed it once by 1 mark and I thought I knew my stuff haha, make sure you know what the SLOPES are on the Sydney WAC as well..

Cheers

Hi Mick,

As for Q19, that's just an extra space that has crept into the question. The time of issue is represented by a 6 digit group followed by "Z" so the TAF is from the 1st of the month at 1825 UTC.

The TAF covers from 2000UTC (on the 1st of the month) to 0800 UTC (on the 2nd of the month) and FM01 means "From 0100 UTC the conditions are expected to be ...". That would mean for your ETA of 0040 you would need to use the conditions as described from 0100 UTC since you are within 30 minutes of a forecast with a ceiling below 1500 ft.

There should be a 6 digit date/time group after the FM (e.g. "FM020100" in this case). However if you look at the example TAFs in the current VFR Day exam booklet, they only use the 2 digit time format (e.g. "FM01").

Cheers,

Rich

Gidday Mick

Thanks for the feed-back on that question. It actually is a victim of the constant updating as formats keep changing. The TAF extract should read:

That has been changed for the next print of the book thanks to your feed-back. Remember that when you are estimating wind direction on the synoptic chart, the meridians on the chart are not parallel, they converge to the bottom of the chart. Therefore true north/true south is not necessarily straight up and down the page. True north is along the local meridian. It's all a lot of bull really, after all it's just the met man's guess we're talking about in the first place. Don't get too excited - answers such as 'westerly' 'or south-westerly' as as good as you are going to get. And yes, the wind 'at Melbourne' would be the surface wind.

Thanks again and good luck with the exam.

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies! It has helped me understand the topic a little better

Still kind of confused in regards to the whole alternate needed when cloud is SCT below 1,500ft (but only when 4/8 OCTAS exists)??? The AIP says SCT is 3-4 OCTAS How are you supposed to know whether its 3 or 4 OCTAS when you read cloud SCT on a forecast???

So if I read a TAF or any other forescast in my exam with cloud SCT below 1,500 ft I don't need an alternate? However if it reads, for instance, cloud SCT 1,400ft and FEW 1,300ft I do need one???
What I guess im trying to ask is... does there need to be a second cloud amount below 1,500ft to ensure an alternate is needed if there is already cloud SCT below 1,500ft??? I hope my question makes sense to someone else, as it barely makes sense to me haha!

Cheers for the advice about my upcoming exam. I have just ordered the Sydney WAC so will definately have a look at it before I sit the exam. Is it only required to get an idea where the Great Dividing Range is in relation to the coast???

Im glad you brought up the 'PROVISIONAL forecast!' After reading Bob's book I understand the importance of what both INTER and TEMPO mean, and that you can either plan to hold or go to an alternate aerodrome, but when it comes to PROVISIONAL, I kind of have no idea! I just know that if I read that, I have to plan for an alternate! Is there any other significance to it that i should know, or is it like a 'stop sign' saying don't come here use an alterative aerodrome??? Or is it similar to both INTER and TEMPO in the fact that you can also plan to hold???

Cheers.

Mick

Mick

The alternate minima for a VFR flight is given in AIP ENR 1.1 para 57.2.1 and 57.2.13. If there is MORE THAN 4 octas OF CLOUD below 1500 feet AGL the conditions are below the VFR alternate minimum. That means you must have an alternate or, if the conditions described are prefixed INTER or TEMPO you may carry holding OR an alternate.

SCT cloud indicates 3 to 4 octas. This is not MORE THAN 4 octas, so you could have SCT cloud at any height below 1500 feet and you would not require any holding or alternate fuel.
However if there was FEW and SCT both below 1500 feet, then you would have to add them together. FEW could be as much as 2 octas and SCT could be as much as 4 octas so together they would be more than 4 octas.

Note the cloud must also be BELOW 1500 feet to be considered. You could have a complete overcast of cloud AT 1500 feet and you would not need holding or alternate fuel. It must be MORE THAN 4/8 AND ALSO BELOW 1500 feet to impose the alternate/holding requirement.

A provisional forecast is put out by the met man if for any reason he is not happy with the information he has at hand. It is done to allow pilots [especially IFR pilots] to 'get on' wlth the trip knowing that a more reliable forecast will be coming out as soon as further information comes in. If the forecast is provisional, you must plan an alternate no matter what is says. You will probably be able to ignore it when the 'firm' TAF becomes available.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your reply... That makes things a bit clearer for me now!

Just re-reading through the operational Met section of your book now, before moving back into your Air Law one! So I may be back on here asking about Air Law next

Otherwise, I will let you know how both exams go!

Cheers.

Mick

Hi all,

Just sat the MET exam and passed!!! Got 85% and am pretty happy with that Only 4 questions wrong...

Quite a few questions were focused on ARFOR's in relation to flights between YSWG - YSCB - YMER. So I would strongly recommend to anyone about to sit it, to brush up on this area and also in using the SYD WAC.

The slopes and ranges bit had me a little confused, but I think I only got one of those wrong, so I guess I knew more than what I actually thought Slopes V Ranges, whats the difference??? I went in thinking the ranges was the Great divide and pretty much the entire area around Canberra... If anyone can distinguish between the two, please let me know!!!

Also strongly recommend using Bob's practise cyber exams, as quite a lot of my actual questions were 'very' similar to what I practised

Mick

Congratulations Mick.

A good solid mark. All that stuff about the 'ranges' and the 'slopes' is very open to interpretation isn't it. In most of the CASA exam questions it really doesn't matter because they often give you a flight that crosses the 'ranges' and the 'slopes' and 'west of the ranges'. If you are asked the lowest cloud base or highest cloud tops forecast for this flight, you simply read them all and pick the lowest/highest.

I have never heard of a question where you would need to decide exactly where the 'slopes' begin and the 'ranges' end. That would be quite unfair.

Once again, congratulations...

Hi Mick
Likewise, I recently sat the MET Exam and got 85% ..... I'm in Adelaide and doing it all with self-study (using BT books of course). The Q's that threw me were all those with TAF/TTF in and around the YSWG - YSCB - YMER area ... unfamiliar with it and WAC wasn't very much use under pressure of time.
Good luck with future exams .... I'm self-studying Aerodynamics and Performance/Planning to complete the theory (left the harder ones 'til last ... so they say, although I enjoy that type of work).
David