Hi all,

VFRG Version/Edition: 8.0 from CASA website, Bob Tait book bought from my local flight store a month ago.

Three quick questions:

1.

This question 5 on page 182 of Volume 2 RPL/PPL, answer said C but shouldn't it be D?

2.


I am a bit confused by this paragraph on Page 18 from VFRG, how can you ever fly at night if you are required to have recent night fly experience?

3.

PPL volume 2 Page 176 said AIRMET is for below 20,000 ft.



However VFRG page 148 said AIRMET is for below 10,000 ft.
I checked Bureau of Meteorology knowledge center, the article about AIRMET didn't mention the ceiling, however another article about "Graphical AIRMET" do read "Geographical and vertical coverage of the graphical AIRMET will be the same as the text product, which is limited to at or below 10,000 feet above mean sea level (AMSL) and covers Australian GAF areas. "

So is it 10,000 ft or 20,000 ft? If it is 10,000 ft then PPL volume 2 page184 question 19 also needs to be corrected.


Thanks in advance for any advise.

Re no 1 - The first two lines of the YCAS forecast indicate VMC conditions. At 1301, INTER conditions come into play which require a minimum of 30 minutes holding fuel. As your ETA is within 30 minutes of the start of the INTER period, holding is required. There is nothing to stop you carrying Trip fuel to an Alternate as well, but it is not required.

Re no 2 - The training process to obtain a NIGHT VFR rating will make you legal to fly VFR at night, all then that is required is for you to keep that rating current as per the VFRG guidelines. I hope that answers your question.

Re no 3 - 10,000ft does seem to be correct. I'll check with Bob

I've amended the paragraph and question to reflect the change to 10000ft


Cheers





www.bom.gov.au/aviation/data/education/a...t-reference-card.pdf

Thanks for the reply but I am still confused for 1 and 2, perhaps I need to elaborate more clearly.

1. I understand that as the ETA is within 30 minutes of the start of the INTER period, holding is required, as per your explanation. However,
PPL vol. 2 page 178

VFRG V8 page 81


Destination alternate OR holding fuel are both acceptable, I think I also read it somewhere in Bob Tait book that it is now the pilot's discretion to carry either fuel to alternate OR holding fuel after some legistration change(?). Therefore why not choose D.

2. So essentially once you get your NVFR rating, you need to practice it at least once very 6 months otherwise your NVFR rating will be invalidated and you need to go through the training process again? I find this rule absurd tbh.

Hi,
Re No 1. Let's look at an example where your planned flight is long, full passengers and baggage, which is restricting the amount of fuel that can be carried. If the alternate is over an hour or more away from your destination, you may not have enough fuel to carry both alternate and holding fuel. So in this question, the minimum that is required is the holding fuel. While the pilot has a choice of holding fuel or alternate fuel, it depends on how much fuel is available to begin with.

Re No 2. The Night VFR rating is an endorsement on your pilot licence, which only requires you to maintain the recency requirements. No need for retraining each time.

Cheers Wayne

Hi WayneJ,

Thank you for your reply.

Re No1. I understand that in your example, the minimum that is required is the holding fuel, given all the assumption you made. But the questions mentioned non of the assumptions you made, nor does it ask for the minimum amount of fuel in a bad weather situation, it asks for what the pilot is ALLOWED to do.

I can easily make an example of an A380 ferry flight carrying full fuel, it can hold for 30 mins, or it can fly to an alternative destination, of course it will most likely consume more fuel to an alternative destination, but again the questions didn't ask about minimum fuels to carry, it asks what is allowed in alternate minima situation.

I can even make an example where an Cirrus SR22 flies from YTYA to YMMB, and the weather requires it to carry 30 mins of holding fuel, it may fly to YTDN within like 15-20 mins, which costs less fuel to the alternative aerodrome compare to holding. According to the answer (B and D are ruled out, carrying trip fuel is ruled out), this flight must carry 30 mins holding fuel. This doesn't make sense.


Re 2. I understand the Night VFR rating requires you to maintain the recency requirements, what confuses me is, according to VFRG page 18 (in screen shot above), the recency requirements are:

"
Before you can fly at night without passengers, you must have conducted at least:
› one night take-off
› one night landing; within the previous 6 months in an aircraft of the same
category.
"

According to this, if you haven't conduct one night take-off and one night landing within the previous 6 months, then you can't fly at night, but if you can't fly at night, how can you conduct one night take-off and landing? You are stuck in a loop, what am I missing here?

Hi Stuart,

How about my first question, is the answer wrong?

Cheers

Your just way overthinking the situation, as a comercial pilot your mission is to take min fuel and max pax/cargo. look at it in that light and you'll see that Wayne's answer is the correct one.

Thank you Stuart. I think I under the concept fully now after some digging, and I have to disagree with you respectfully.

At the end of the day, we need to comply with what the legistration says, so as a last resort, I went to check AIP ENR 1.1 10.7.2.4, the exact wording they used is ".......provision of an alternate need NOT be made IF SUFFICIENT FUEL IS CARRIED to allow the aircraft to hold........". The provision here refers to 10.7.2.1, where it states a suitable alternate aerodrome must be provided if weather condition is below alternate minimum.

So according to AIP ENR 1.1 10.7.2.4, IF you carry sufficient fuel to hold in a TEMPO or INTER, you don't need to comply with 10.7.2.1. WHAT IF you don't carry sufficent fuel to hold? Then you do need to comply with 10.7.2.1. IMHO, the keyword "IF" here gives the PIC an option, you either comply with 10.7.2.1 or you comply with 10.7.2.4, depends on IF SUFFICIENT FUEL TO HOLD is carried (the word they used).

10.7.2.4 never states or implies that the PIC has to carry holding fuel, it is PIC's choice between 10.7.2.1 or 10.7.2.4. Neither does 10.7.2.4 mentioned anything about commercial or private operation.

Now that I totally understand in most case (especially in a commercial operation), a holding fuel is much less than trip fuel to an alternative aerodrome (take min fuel and max pax/cargo like you said). But this is not always true, in a private operation, a 60mins tempo holding fuel can be way more than flying to a nearby suitable alternative aerodrome. Once again, 10.7.2.4 never says the PIC always has to carry holding fuel in a TEMPO or INTER situation, it only relieves the PIC from 10.7.2.1 if the he/she chooses to carry holding fuel.

I believe in an exam situation, the choice should be what the legistration says, instead of any particular situation (commercial/long flight/full passenger/full cargo etc. in this case) that is not mentioned in the question. So back to the question, D should be the correct answer.