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Turn and Balance or Turn and Bank...?

  • brook
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brook created the topic: Turn and Balance or Turn and Bank...?

Hi Richard and Bob,

Wow it sounds like the online course certainly is a whole new class of education, I am looking forward very much to the Performance module. Good luck on the ipad rendering, that is very ambitious and good on you for including an Ipad module.

Just wondering - when I review the sections of the AGK book and particularly on page 5.13 of AGK issue 6 - I see reference to Turn and Balance, instead of Turn and Bank.

When I have previously looked at most suppliers of such equipment, they either sell a Turn and Bank OR the Turn Co-ordinator (newer). The FAA also calls them a Turn and Bank Indicator.

Yet the text quite rightly says "It should be remembered that the instrument (Turn and Balance) does not DIRECTLY indicate bank".

In either case it is obvious that is is YAW that is being measured from the procession of the gyro, however as is pointed out "in flight, providing the balance ball is centred, the bats deflection indicates that the aircraft IS actually banked in that direction".

It is also obvious that the Turn Coodinator, the newer of the two ALSO responds to Roll, in addition to yaw.

Just curious on the originals or definitions of Turn and Bank vs Turn and Balance?

What is the meaning of the word "balance" in this context? Maybe someone was thinking, with each turn in this twin, what is my bank balance? Or maybe I'm just being to pedantic? I just ask this in case there IS a difference.
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Richard replied the topic: Re: Turn and Balance or Turn and Bank...?

Hi Brook,

The word "balance" in this context refers to a "balanced turn". When you are in a turn, the turn and balance indicator (also known as "turn and slip" or "turn and bank" indicators) shows the rate of heading change (with the bat) and the net effect of the forces acting in the turn (with the slip ball).

If you have the bat indicating a turn while the slip ball is centred, you are said to be in a balanced turn.

If the slip ball is off center while the bat is indicating a turn you are either slipping or skidding: if the ball is offset in the direction of turn, you are slipping. If it is offset opposite to the direction of turn, you are skidding.

Note, the turn co-ordinator also indicates whether you are in a balanced turn. Turn coordinator indicating a turn with the ball centred means you are in a balanced (or "co-ordinated" turn). If the ball is offset in the direction of bank, you are slipping. If the slip ball is offset opposite to the direction of bank, you are skidding.

Cheers,

Rich
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  • brook
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brook replied the topic: Re: Turn and Balance or Turn and Bank...?

Thanks Richard,

That makes sense. So in terms of the instrument itself, is it a turn and balance, or a turn and bank?

Brook

PS: I am guessing the Ipad CPL Perf is more a matter of screen format than a separate module? Safari can be tricky and Apple are not big on putting IE, Firefox or Chrome on their firmware based products.
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Richard replied the topic: Re: Turn and Balance or Turn and Bank...?

Hi Brook,

So in terms of the instrument itself, is it a turn and balance, or a turn and bank?

The instrument has both names but "turn and balance" is a more appropriate name for it.

To be honest, try and steer away from the term "turn and bank".

First off it's nothing but another name for the same instrument but as such it is somewhat of a misnomer. The instrument does not indicate angle of bank so calling it a "turn and bank" indicator is misleading and could trip you up in the exam. The bat indicates a turn (i.e. a change in heading). If the slip ball is centred, the only way you can be changing heading is if you are banked into a turn. Therefore, in this situation you can infer that you must be banking but there's no direct way to know by how much you are banked.

"Turn and slip" or "Turn and balance" indicator are much more appropriate terms.

PS: I am guessing the Ipad CPL Perf is more a matter of screen format than a separate module?

The multimedia course material in the CPL Performance course will not run on an iPad as it uses a flash application to deliver transcripts and search functionality to the lessons and In Class segments.

However, all quizzes, practice exams, drill exercises and the E-Text version of the CPL Performance textbook (included with the enrolment) can be accessed easily with an iPad. You could use the iPad as a mobile testing station if you wanted to.

You will need access to a desktop computer (PC, Linux or Mac) to view the flash-based content. I should also mention, for technical reasons, the offline media disc only works on windows PCs. All material can be accessed online though irrespective of platform.

Cheers,

Rich
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