Hey everyone just a couple of quick questions,

Question 13, on page 2.49 of the Air Law text asks about the required documents I obviously found CAR 139, but both answers b) and c) seem to be correct? CAR 139 says the licences, medicals, flight manual, certiicate of airworthiness and certificate of registration are all required.
I selected answer c) and got it wrong, why is b) correct?

Likewise with question 5 regarding the consumption of alcohol. I believe CAR 256 to read in my view, that you cannot perform any duties prior to the departure if you have still drunk 8 hours before you start your preparation, this I selected b) and was wrong.
So does this mean hypothetically speaking I could drink until 2 am, have a flight departing at 10am, and start planning my flight at 8am?
Sorry, I can't quite get my head around it.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Does question 13 specify a flight within Australia? Flights within Australia are exempt from some of the requirements and carriage of the CofA and the CofR are among them.

Your second question also has me confused. This question reappears in a few different disguises throughout the study text and the answer is always the same - 8 hours prior to departure of the flight. After re-reading CAR256 (3) a few times I have to say that I do not think this answer is correct. The CAR specifies that a person shall not "perform any duties or functions preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew" if they have had alcohol in the past 8 hours. This to me suggests you cannot commence duty prior to a flight if you have had alcohol in the past 8 hours. Perhaps I am missing something?

I'm answering my own question here, but I have just seen it for the first time. From CAR256 (3):

"if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor."

The 8 hours is specified in the CAR as the period immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft. This makes any reference to performing duties or functions preparatory to acting as a member of the operating crew entirely redundant (assuming that those preparatory duties or functions would be performed prior to departure, which they must be). So, under the legislation you could drink a sixpack and then do your flight plan and all your preflight stuff immediately, so long as you don't actually take off until 8 hours after you emptied your last stubby. Note that I am not recommending this procedure, just pointing out that it would be perfectly legal if I'm now reading this CAR correctly.

Hi Ray,

Careful here. According to the CAR 256 (2) you may not perform ANY duty as a member of the operating crew while under the influence of any alcohol or drugs or medication. Surely if you are preparing the flight plan for your flight you are performing a duty as an operating crew member. On top of this is CAR 256(3) and the 8 hour regulation which states you cannot even have a sip of alcohol within 8 hours of departure.

Therefore, you won't legally be able to neck a six pack and then do your flight planning - even if it is more than 8 hours before your departure. This is a discussion that comes up very often in Air Law classes

Cheers,

Rich

Yep, fair point Rich. I stand by my comment about the redundancy of the preparatory functions and duties in para (3) though. If you have had a drink in the 8 hours prior to departure you are not compliant whether or not you also undertook those preparatory duties preflight. So like many CASA regs, all it does is confuse the issue.

But if we didn't have CAR 256 (3) we wouldn't have the immortal "8 hours bottle to throttle" rhyme. It's worth it just for that

On a more serious note, perhaps it was there to block people who reckon they can have a tipple because it won't affect them. "I don't even feel one beer so I won't be under the influence of it". CAR 256 (3) steps in then and says "forget it. 8 hour abstinence. Full stop, no arguments". Just a thought...

Cheers,

Rich

Sat my CLWA this morning and got 98% - thanks Bob! Would have preferred a perfect score of course. To rub salt into the wound, I am convinced that the question I got 'wrong' was in fact not correctly marked.

To summarise, if you had 'TEMPO SCT CB' in the TAF for your destination, what would be your holding/alternate requirement? Anyone want to guess what answer I gave and why I think it is correct?

Hi Ray
My 2cents worth. You may not need an alternate. My guess is that you will need either an alternate OR holding fuel for the duration of the tempo.

98% thats a great score, well done.
Neville

I agree. My take on this one is also "an alternate OR 60 minutes holding".

The AIP says "when the presence of TS or their associated severe turbulence or their probability is forecast" you will need an alternate or sufficient holding fuel. Now, CB is not TS so you could argue you don't need an alternate since it's not a thunderstorm. However, I wonder if CASA considers CB to be "associated severe turbulence" and this is what triggers the OPR. Since the CBs are in a TEMPO you could get away with carrying the 60 minutes holding instead of an alternate if you wished.

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. excellent result by the way. Good job!!

It is a bit academic, since you are never going to see those three words by themselves in a TAF in the real world, but if you did then common sense and good airmanship would prevail and you would plan to carry 60 minutes of extra juice or plan for an alternate. That goes without saying.

But the CASA exam is not about common sense or airmanship, it is about what the law says. There is nothing in any of the Regs or other publications that says you have to plan for an alternate or carry any holding fuel for a TEMPO SCT CB. So the only correct answer is 'No Requirement', which is what I selected. The CyberExam system obviously does not agree! Remember that a TEMPO will only require 60 minutes of holding fuel if the temporary visibility or weather or cloud that is being described is below the alternate minima. So for example TEMPO BKN010 would require holding fuel, but TEMPO BKN015 would not. TEMPO SCT CB contains nothing below alternate minima for us to be concerned about. If there were no TS forecast, but moderate or severe turbulence was expected to be associated with the CB, then this would be included in the TAF - for example TEMPO SCT CB MOD/SEV TURB IN CB (AIP GEN 3.5 para 15). The exam question did not include any such reference to turbulence so we cannot consider it in providing a valid answer.

Back in the real world, AIP GEN 3.5 para 12.12.6 tells us that whenever CB is forecast, we will get a forecast as to the degree of TS activity expected or its probability. So in the real world we are content, but what this paragraph tells us for the purposes of the exam is that the question is incomplete and cannot be answered with any degree of accuracy. Lets take a hypothetical based on the exam question, a TAF that says: TEMPO SCT CB INTER 3000 TSRA. This would require us to carry only 30 min holding fuel or an alternate! Or, what about this TAF: FM0400 TEMPO SCT CB FM0500 TEMPO TSGR. For this forecast we would need 60 min holding fuel or an alternate, but not until an arrival after 0430 (when CBs have been forecast to have been around for 30 minutes already)! There are any number of variations on this that make the TEMPO SCT CB part of the TAF meaningless for answering the question.

Anyway, just a bit miffed at missing out on the big 100 because of such a silly question. I'll get over it We all know that there a few curly questions in the CASA exams that are designed to be a bit on the tricky side - this question stood out to me as one of those. I would suggest that whoever wrote the question did not consider the fact that it is perfectly legitimate to have CB clouds but no TS (ie in their mind CB=TS, which is of course not the case).