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Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

  • pannier
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pannier created the topic: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Dear All,

Can anyone help me with a problem from the CPL performance final test pg 8.15 q38 in the CPL perf. text, which reads "The actual obstacle free gradient avbl from the end of TODA on rwy 12 at Deniliquin is

a) 2.53 B. 2.95 C. 1.2 D.1.9. C is given as the answer. I have looked at the ERSA for an answer but no figure in the RDS or ala info tells me that.

I'm sure that it is blindingly obvious, but....

Any suggestions?

many thanks

George
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  • pannier
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pannier replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

apologies...just saw the other posts on this...understand book is using old data....problem solved.
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  • dtrembath
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dtrembath replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi
Regarding this ... from where is the obstacle-free gradient measured from .... from end of TORA or end of TODA .... I assume it it TODA.

Have been working my butt off through the performance activities and other materials ... all self-study ... have been crook for the last 9 days (so concentration has been a bit erratic) ... however, I have the Performance Exam in the morning (Thursday 23rd December) ... feel pretty well prepared .... but you on;y have to make a 'silly' arithmetic error and all gets screwed up .....

In general, is there any indication as to the number of questions and I assume there are many question that have several marks attached to them .... I haven't been able to speak to anyone who has done the Exam ...

Here's hoping ...

David T
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  • pannier
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pannier replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi there...sat exam today. Lots of stuff on landing charts (all types) loading charts, quite a few q on PNR and ETP, a question on critical point with relation to effects of wind (which I had never heard of), lots of stuff on echo ballast and loading.

Long exam, lots of number crunching with COG etc. Made a silly error in that I did not read the f***ing question (AKA Romeo tango foxtrot quebec!) in a couple but found out in time, and used eventually the right chart.

Watch out for sneaky endurance questions with odd wording ("Fuel available is that which is available for climb, cruise and descent. What would be the correct figure to calculate endurance for PNR?"...figures then given)

A couple on max fuel after finding least of three weight limits.

Even a question which asked you the max capacity of the rear locker!

Floor loading and a couple which required you to split luggage advantageously for loading with charlie.

happy to get 80%!

Had telephone tutorial last night with the good Mr Murray, and another this this morning at BASAIR, thank God.

Watch out for wonky lines, dull pencils and calculator clumsiness! I always check additions twice now after a few disasters.

Now relaxing and thinking about Air Law!

Merry Xmas and thanks for the online trial!


George
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Richard replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi David,

Your assumption is correct. The obstacle free gradient is surveyed from the end of the clearway or in other words, from the the end of the TODA (since TODA = TORA + Clearway).

I'm glad you're feeling better. Good luck with the exam tomorrow! Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. George, thanks very much for posting that info and a hearty congratulations on the pass! Great work.

Merry Christmas!
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  • pannier
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pannier replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Dear all,

can't remember exact wording ( slight over indulgence last night - pass the paracetamol please) but had a q that asked the exact length of the obstacle free path that I think involved using the ASDA instead of the TORA as the starting point (since ASDA is by definition longer than TORA?)

Thanks for your kind words Richard and your help too!
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  • dtrembath
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dtrembath replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi guys

Sat the performance exam today (Thursday 23/12).
What a mind-numbing, torturous, mentally, physically (have been quite unwell for the last 10 days) and ‘precision’ 150 minutes … finished last question with 3 minutes to go … too exhausted to check anything (I like to double check calculations and additions etc when doing the question).

Pretty disappointed with the exam questions (more later) … thought I was very well prepared and actually looking forward to it ..
Anyhow .. on my first attempt … PASSED (just) with 70% (a bit embarrassing … but none the less, no need to worry anymore about those pesky charts that are so hard to read and the pedantic accuracies required many times within the one question).

A couple of points (why I was disappointed with the exam)

I suppose, most of us like to think we are hard done by in in any of the CPL exams .. I’m no different but I do believe there are flaws in the marking scheme ….. I don’t know, but guessing that if there are 3 marks for a question then you either get 3 or zero … therein lays the problem ….. I don’t need to explain any more … we all know what I’m talking about.
There are many ways to get around this (in order to give partial credit for a complex/extended scenario …. Education assessment authorities around the world have been dealing/solving this for years …. Mind you, I’m happy for 1 or 2 of these to exist.
I’m pretty sure all of this has been discussed before … I just need a way to let off a bit of steam. Have no idea whether CASA has tinkered with it.

Anyway … here’s an overview of my exam (I won’t give away too much .. in order to protect the system)

# Q1 …. Frost on the wings and tailplane …
# Q2 …. With a change in desity how is the TOSS affected (in terms of ISA/TAS)
# Q3 …. The weirdest TODA question (didn’t need ERSA) … given a whole lot of numbers re TORA, ASDA, overlayed clearways and altered thresholds … what is the TODA?

Was getting worried at this stage …..

# Absolutely no questions on PH, DH, QNH, QFE at all … whether simple or complex
# Did NOT have to access ERSA AT ALL
# Did NOT have to use the CR3 AT ALL
# No Climb Gradient questions
# No holding (reserves), search or alternate (stated or TAF/TTF) questions
# No check 3 (or 2) landing weight limit questions
# No max cargo questions
# Lots of addition/subtraction questions
# 4 PNR/ETP questions (KDR said I got one wrong … must have misread the question)
# A number of forward limit ECHO questions
# 3 Linear chart questions (WHY WHY WHY … can’t read the %^$&^#$ things)
# Lots and lots of tricky ballast (2 and 3 mark) questions … particularly with ballast and fuel already loaded, then have to redistribute ballast, then add ballast then fuel to maintain COG requirements
# There were a couple of easy ones thrown in ie Va, Vno, %MAC (1 mark of course)

Hope this helps (certainly lets me get it off my chest).
I’m not disappointed enough to want to do the exam again though …..

All the best

David
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Richard replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi David,

Congratulations!!! You passed!!!! Awesome!!!!!

I know you're a bit disappointed with the result but hey, considering illness and the like, you've can be proud of the first-time pass. Now it's time to sit back, recover from the ordeal and enjoy a wonderful Christmas...or have you booked another exam for boxing day :lol:

Great stuff David! Well done!

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. thanks for the feedback on the questions. It was good that you didn't reproduce any of the actual questions (which would make CASA understandably unhappy) and yet you brought over enough details to be helpful for other students. Thanks!
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  • dtrembath
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dtrembath replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Nope .....

Next is Jan 18 ... Aerodynamics

Have a good Xmas/New Year

David
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Richard replied the topic: Re: Actual Obstacle free gradient from end of TODA

Hi George,

... had a q that asked the exact length of the obstacle free path that I think involved using the ASDA instead of the TORA as the starting point (since ASDA is by definition longer than TORA?)

I'd need more information on the wording of the question before saying too much on that one. After the head has cleared and you can remember more details let me know. I'm intrigued as to how they would put a question that expected you to use the ASDA instead of the TORA as the starting point for measuring the obstacle free distance. After all, the obstacle free path is relevant to a successful take-off and the TORA is important there. The ASDA is TORA plus stopway but the stopway is unuseable unless you're aborting the take-off. Then it becomes available for rollout while stopping.

On a successful take-off though, the stopway would simply lie underneath (part of) the clearway since by definition the stopway would be obstacle free and it begins at the end of the TORA.

Let me know if you remember any more details.

Cheers,

Rich
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