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- Don
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Can you please help me to answer this question?

"You departed Dubbo at 0327 for Mudgee. Your VOR [tuned to Dubbo] has 101 set on the OBS. Your DME is also tuned to Dubbo. At time 0336, the CDI on your VOR is indicating two dots left of centre and the DME is indicating 28. Your heading of 105 degrees M has been constant since departure.

At 0336, your ADF, tuned to Mudgee would be expected to read...?"

The track from Dubbo to Mudgee, as per ERC L 3 is 101 degrees

Thank you!

Don

"You departed Dubbo at 0327 for Mudgee. Your VOR [tuned to Dubbo] has 101 set on the OBS. Your DME is also tuned to Dubbo. At time 0336, the CDI on your VOR is indicating two dots left of centre and the DME is indicating 28. Your heading of 105 degrees M has been constant since departure.

At 0336, your ADF, tuned to Mudgee would be expected to read...?"

The track from Dubbo to Mudgee, as per ERC L 3 is 101 degrees

Thank you!

Don

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- John.Heddles
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I tell you the answer, you learn naught. I give you some clues, you get the answer and learn something along the way.

(a) ERC gives you the track Mudgee to Dubbo, which is ?

(b) ERC gives you the distance between the two, which is ?

(c) what is your track error at 0336 ?

(d) (quick mental arithmetic) what is the closing angle to Mudgee ?

(e) so what is the track to Mudgee from your present position ?

(f) what is your heading at the moment ?

(g) so what is the angle between track to Mudgee and present heading ?

(h) and what is the ADF reading as a relative bearing ? (before you do any corrections)

(a) ERC gives you the track Mudgee to Dubbo, which is ?

(b) ERC gives you the distance between the two, which is ?

(c) what is your track error at 0336 ?

(d) (quick mental arithmetic) what is the closing angle to Mudgee ?

(e) so what is the track to Mudgee from your present position ?

(f) what is your heading at the moment ?

(g) so what is the angle between track to Mudgee and present heading ?

(h) and what is the ADF reading as a relative bearing ? (before you do any corrections)

Engineering specialist in aircraft performance and weight control.

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- Don
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Hi John,

Thank you very much for the steps. Answer is 352 degrees R.

But I have a little thing to clarify again, the question it says 2 dots left of the center, for this question I took it is as 4 degrees.

But Bob tait's IREX book, page # 65 - Question 14. Instrument indicate CDI is in 2 dots left, answer considered as 6 degrees. ( as far as I know 2 dots count including the circle in the VOR instrument)

Thank you very much for the steps again!

Don

Thank you very much for the steps. Answer is 352 degrees R.

But I have a little thing to clarify again, the question it says 2 dots left of the center, for this question I took it is as 4 degrees.

But Bob tait's IREX book, page # 65 - Question 14. Instrument indicate CDI is in 2 dots left, answer considered as 6 degrees. ( as far as I know 2 dots count including the circle in the VOR instrument)

Thank you very much for the steps again!

Don

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- John.Heddles
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As you quite sure of that answer ? Perhaps you can post your working ?

I would have to dig out the relevant TSOs to see what the indicator presentation requirements are - bit out of my engineering discipline - black art stuff is E&I.

Pilot-wise, I am familiar with two presentations;

a small bullseye with 5 additional dots either side

and a large bullseye with 4 dots either side.

On the latter presentation, the bullseye ring is the first dot. Either way we figure 10 degrees FSD for a VOR. I haven't looked at Bob's IREX text so I can't comment on what it might say. No doubt either Bob or Stuart will comment if appropriate.

Engineering specialist in aircraft performance and weight control.

Last Edit: 3 months 1 week ago by John.Heddles.

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- Don
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Please find the attached drawing.

H +/- A = T

105 +/- A = 097 (doubling the TE)

+/- A = 097 - 105

= - 8 to (360 - 8 to)

= 352 degrees R

H +/- A = T

105 +/- A = 097 (doubling the TE)

+/- A = 097 - 105

= - 8 to (360 - 8 to)

= 352 degrees R

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- John.Heddles
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Can I get you to recheck your 101 degrees against the ERC ?

Also, how far, as a fraction of the distance, have you gone at 0336 ?

(I'm very impressed by your arithmetic, even if I have absolutely no idea what it might mean ....)

Also, how far, as a fraction of the distance, have you gone at 0336 ?

(I'm very impressed by your arithmetic, even if I have absolutely no idea what it might mean ....)

Engineering specialist in aircraft performance and weight control.

Last Edit: 3 months 1 week ago by John.Heddles.

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- Don
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Thank you very much for the prompt respond.

ERC - closer to Dubbo says 101. And also question is saying Your VOR set to Dubbo 101 on the OBS.

A/C is half way between. At 0336 A/C is 28 nm.

Find the attachment.

Many Thankx!

Don

ERC - closer to Dubbo says 101. And also question is saying Your VOR set to Dubbo 101 on the OBS.

A/C is half way between. At 0336 A/C is 28 nm.

Find the attachment.

Many Thankx!

Don

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- John.Heddles
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Ref 101 degrees. I downloaded the current ERC (which could be different to yours if you have a superseded version). Can I get you to check the inbound track to MDG at the MDG end of the sector ? What is that track ?

Where I am going is to endeavour to show that the mental sequence to sort out this orientation problem is extremely straightforward and you really don't need to jump through a bunch of arithmetic tricks.

Where I am going is to endeavour to show that the mental sequence to sort out this orientation problem is extremely straightforward and you really don't need to jump through a bunch of arithmetic tricks.

Engineering specialist in aircraft performance and weight control.

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- bobtait
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John makes a valid point concerning the different VOR presentations. However I remember having this discussion with CASA some years ago and they said the question would use a phrase such as 'two dots left of the centre circle' so you could assume that the edge of the centre circle was the first 'dot'. I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned that somewhere in the book. I know that still doesn't account for the two presentations. We can only hope that the examiners have addressed the issue.

Bob

Bob

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- Don
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Thank you very much Bob!

I think the best way is to check with options (4/6 degrees - assume "two dots left of the center circle") and check which answer is available to select. Thankx again!

I think the best way is to check with options (4/6 degrees - assume "two dots left of the center circle") and check which answer is available to select. Thankx again!

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