apologies...just saw the other posts on this...understand book is using old data....problem solved.

Hi
Regarding this ... from where is the obstacle-free gradient measured from .... from end of TORA or end of TODA .... I assume it it TODA.

Have been working my butt off through the performance activities and other materials ... all self-study ... have been crook for the last 9 days (so concentration has been a bit erratic) ... however, I have the Performance Exam in the morning (Thursday 23rd December) ... feel pretty well prepared .... but you on;y have to make a 'silly' arithmetic error and all gets screwed up .....

In general, is there any indication as to the number of questions and I assume there are many question that have several marks attached to them .... I haven't been able to speak to anyone who has done the Exam ...

Here's hoping ...

David T

Hi there...sat exam today. Lots of stuff on landing charts (all types) loading charts, quite a few q on PNR and ETP, a question on critical point with relation to effects of wind (which I had never heard of), lots of stuff on echo ballast and loading.

Long exam, lots of number crunching with COG etc. Made a silly error in that I did not read the f***ing question (AKA Romeo tango foxtrot quebec!) in a couple but found out in time, and used eventually the right chart.

Watch out for sneaky endurance questions with odd wording ("Fuel available is that which is available for climb, cruise and descent. What would be the correct figure to calculate endurance for PNR?"...figures then given)

A couple on max fuel after finding least of three weight limits.

Even a question which asked you the max capacity of the rear locker!

Floor loading and a couple which required you to split luggage advantageously for loading with charlie.

happy to get 80%!

Had telephone tutorial last night with the good Mr Murray, and another this this morning at BASAIR, thank God.

Watch out for wonky lines, dull pencils and calculator clumsiness! I always check additions twice now after a few disasters.

Now relaxing and thinking about Air Law!

Merry Xmas and thanks for the online trial!

George

Hi David,

Your assumption is correct. The obstacle free gradient is surveyed from the end of the clearway or in other words, from the the end of the TODA (since TODA = TORA + Clearway).

I'm glad you're feeling better. Good luck with the exam tomorrow! Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. George, thanks very much for posting that info and a hearty congratulations on the pass! Great work.

Merry Christmas!

Dear all,

can't remember exact wording ( slight over indulgence last night - pass the paracetamol please) but had a q that asked the exact length of the obstacle free path that I think involved using the ASDA instead of the TORA as the starting point (since ASDA is by definition longer than TORA?)

Thanks for your kind words Richard and your help too!

Hi guys

Sat the performance exam today (Thursday 23/12).
What a mind-numbing, torturous, mentally, physically (have been quite unwell for the last 10 days) and ‘precision’ 150 minutes … finished last question with 3 minutes to go … too exhausted to check anything (I like to double check calculations and additions etc when doing the question).

Pretty disappointed with the exam questions (more later) … thought I was very well prepared and actually looking forward to it ..
Anyhow .. on my first attempt … PASSED (just) with 70% (a bit embarrassing … but none the less, no need to worry anymore about those pesky charts that are so hard to read and the pedantic accuracies required many times within the one question).

A couple of points (why I was disappointed with the exam)

I suppose, most of us like to think we are hard done by in in any of the CPL exams .. I’m no different but I do believe there are flaws in the marking scheme ….. I don’t know, but guessing that if there are 3 marks for a question then you either get 3 or zero … therein lays the problem ….. I don’t need to explain any more … we all know what I’m talking about.
There are many ways to get around this (in order to give partial credit for a complex/extended scenario …. Education assessment authorities around the world have been dealing/solving this for years …. Mind you, I’m happy for 1 or 2 of these to exist.
I’m pretty sure all of this has been discussed before … I just need a way to let off a bit of steam. Have no idea whether CASA has tinkered with it.

Anyway … here’s an overview of my exam (I won’t give away too much .. in order to protect the system)

# Q1 …. Frost on the wings and tailplane …
# Q2 …. With a change in desity how is the TOSS affected (in terms of ISA/TAS)
# Q3 …. The weirdest TODA question (didn’t need ERSA) … given a whole lot of numbers re TORA, ASDA, overlayed clearways and altered thresholds … what is the TODA?

Was getting worried at this stage …..

# Absolutely no questions on PH, DH, QNH, QFE at all … whether simple or complex
# Did NOT have to access ERSA AT ALL
# Did NOT have to use the CR3 AT ALL
# No Climb Gradient questions
# No holding (reserves), search or alternate (stated or TAF/TTF) questions
# No check 3 (or 2) landing weight limit questions
# No max cargo questions
# Lots of addition/subtraction questions
# 4 PNR/ETP questions (KDR said I got one wrong … must have misread the question)
# A number of forward limit ECHO questions
# 3 Linear chart questions (WHY WHY WHY … can’t read the %^$&^#$ things)
# Lots and lots of tricky ballast (2 and 3 mark) questions … particularly with ballast and fuel already loaded, then have to redistribute ballast, then add ballast then fuel to maintain COG requirements
# There were a couple of easy ones thrown in ie Va, Vno, %MAC (1 mark of course)

Hope this helps (certainly lets me get it off my chest).
I’m not disappointed enough to want to do the exam again though …..

All the best

David

Hi David,

Congratulations!!! You passed!!!! Awesome!!!!!

I know you're a bit disappointed with the result but hey, considering illness and the like, you've can be proud of the first-time pass. Now it's time to sit back, recover from the ordeal and enjoy a wonderful Christmas...or have you booked another exam for boxing day 😆

Great stuff David! Well done!

Cheers,

Rich

P.S. thanks for the feedback on the questions. It was good that you didn't reproduce any of the actual questions (which would make CASA understandably unhappy) and yet you brought over enough details to be helpful for other students. Thanks!

Nope .....

Next is Jan 18 ... Aerodynamics

Have a good Xmas/New Year

David

Hi George,

... had a q that asked the exact length of the obstacle free path that I think involved using the ASDA instead of the TORA as the starting point (since ASDA is by definition longer than TORA?)

On a successful take-off though, the stopway would simply lie underneath (part of) the clearway since by definition the stopway would be obstacle free and it begins at the end of the TORA.

Let me know if you remember any more details.

Cheers,

Rich

Dear All,

Agree with the last post by David...quite a tortuous experience are the old performance exams, and have to say that some of the charts (linear especially) would give you a good work-out!

Heard from an instructor that the ATPL charts are another order of magnitude harder!

Well done David, especially since you were ill.

Good luck with the aerodynamics exam. I promised myself that I would leave the Air Law textbook alone, but I find myself looking in the direction of the ever growing pile of text books....

George

Well done David, a pass is always a pass and Performance certainly makes you work for it. You definitely have grounds for a gripe or two about the exam itself, would I be correct in saying that in the 'old days' of paper exams, marks may be credited for the correct working, even though the answer wasn't quite right (obviously not full marks).. I think I've heard this somewhere before, could be an old wives tale though! The cyberexam system obviously doesn't want to know about your working so long as the cursor clicked the right circle.

Interesting you didn't have to use your computer at all?! I didn't consult ERSA either.

For both of you, if you can get through Performance, CLWA is a walk in the park to be honest.

Good luck!

Congratulations David. At least you can put that behind you now. It is true that in 'the old days' 1970s and 80s, the CPL exams were written exams. There were five multi-choice exams and when you passed them you qualified to sit the dreaded FINAL. The final exam was a written exam which supplied actual WACs and ERCs along with TAFs ARFORs and NOTAM informaton. You had to do a full flight plan over a given route with intermediate landings where you either added or unloaded cargo/passengers. You had to maintain the aircraft in balance throughout. As the flight progressed you got questions on air law, met and nav that related to this flight.

Some questions were essay answers e.g. explain why thunderstorms are forecast east of the ranges - that type of thing. Each paper was manually marked in Canberra and the result was posted to you about 10 days later. You did get 'part marks' for questions but I think you are probably better off under the present system. I can't imagine some of the young guys coming through now writing 10 lines on the formation of a subsidence inversion!

Thanks all

Had a sleep on it (first night over 4 hours for a while now) and feel a bit better (it's behind me) ... however, I still really like doing all those performance calculations and problem solving .... just some of those charts!!!!!

Agree Bob ... multiple choice is far better than the older system (which could never work these days anyway ... cost the govt too much and people just don't want to WAIT for results).
However, there are proven methods to incorporate partial credit in MC exams for complex/extended scenarios .....

For captainellzy: thanks for your comments .... I didn't use the CR3 at all as I do all conversions (distance, time, speed,etc) on the calculator .... quicker and more accurate.
I didn't have to do any TAS/CAS/PH/DH conversions or given track wind V/D find heading etc questions ... therefore no need for CR3 ... such a handy device though.

It's the 24th ... off to do my Xmas shopping ... hopefully can get that done successfully in 150 minutes.

Have a great Xmas/New year to all of you ..

David